Hawker-Beechcraft AT-6
*Update: Hawker-Beechcraft sues to block Embraer’s Air Force Contract
By Gary P Jackson
Here’s a little something that caught my eye today. It seems after investing around $100 million in this project, Hawker-Beechcraft has been excluded from a contract, worth almost $1 billion, to build a new light air support plane.
What intrigues me is the Brazilian company Embraer, the likely contract winner, is currently under investigation by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, and the Justice Department, for possible violations of the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.
According to Financial Times, Embraer is “venturing into the defense industry” and “is one of a select few Brazilian companies that has managed to break out of the Latin American market and compete on a global scale”
You can read more about the corruption investigation here.
Here’s what the Wichita Eagle is reporting:
Hawker Beechcraft Corp. says the Air Force has informed the company that it lost out on a military contract worth nearly $1 billion.
The company had hoped to win the Light Air Support contract with its AT-6, an armed version of its T-6 trainer. But on Friday, the company said it received a letter from the Air Force saying the AT-6 had been excluded from the competition. The company wants an explanation.
According to the company’s news release: “The letter provides no basis for the exclusion. We are both confounded and troubled by this decision, as we have been working closely with the Air Force for two years and, with our partners Lockheed Martin, CMC Esterline, Pratt & Whitney Canada, L-3 WESCAM and CAE, have invested more than $100 million preparing to meet the Air Force’s specific requirements.”
The piston planes are designed for counterinsurgency, close air support, armed overwatch and homeland security.
Hawker Beechcraft said it continues to believe the AT-6 is the most capable, affordable and sustainable aircraft in the competition based on the Air Force’s specifications. The company has said that winning the award would have kept its T-6 production line running after 2015. The company has said that 1,400 employees in 20 states – including 800 at Hawker Beechcraft in Wichita – work on the AT-6 and T-6 programs at the company and its U.S. suppliers and partners.
The company said Friday that it had no further comment, for now.
The decision appears to leave the field open to the Super Tucano built by Brazil’s Embraer for the initial contract to supply 35 with the potential for 55 aircraft worth up to $950 million. And that doesn’t include foreign sales.
The Air Force’s move surprised aircraft industry analyst Richard Aboulafia of the Teal Group.
“They seemed to be the front runner for the contract,” he said of Hawker. “They had the most infrastructure spread over the most states and the most political support.”
He said the loss is not critical to the company’s survival, but it would have been a great boost to maintaining work and workers as the company’s T-6 contract runs down.
“The challenge is to build for the military market until the civil market comes back,” Aboulafia said. “And nobody knows when the civil market will come back, probably some time next year, but there’s no guarantee.”
Analyst Wayne Plucker, industry manager for aerospace at Frost & Sullivan, downplayed the importance of the contract to the company.
“It might lead to more layoffs and other adjustments internally, but I don’t think it significantly affects them as a going concern,” he said. “They just need to find another product niche.”
He said the Super Tucano was built specifically for this kind of mission, while the AT-6 is an adaption that wasn’t perfect. Embraer has struggled to sell enough of the planes so it has priced them very aggressively.
U.S. Rep. Mike Pompeo, R-Wichita, said in an e-mailed statement that he was disappointed by the decision..
“I have already demanded answers from the Pentagon on why they made this very unfortunate decision, and will continue to do so,” he wrote. “This contract is critical both to our nation’s security and to jobs in Wichita, Kansas.”
The Obama regime sure seems to favor Brazil for some reason. It may be the fact Obama’s boss, George Soros, has many investments there. As we know, Obama gave the Soros owned Brazilian oil giant Petrobas $10 billion a couple years back, just days after Soros bought controlling interest in the company.
Whitney Pitcher found more about the connection between Petrobas, and Obama’s repeated efforts to stifle American oil exploration. Obama has told the Brazilian leaders he wants America to be their best customer for oil.
Doing some research it seems George Soros has a connection to Embraer through Harbin-Embraer Aircraft a Chinese-Brazilian joint venture, and Hainan Airlines, which Soros owns a significant stake in.
Not sure what to make of this.
By all accounts, both Hawker-Beechcraft and Embraer have a great aircraft that would fit the requirements for the mission. The Hawker is a converted trainer, while Embraer is mission specific, and already in service in Latin America.
The purpose-built aspect vs an older, reconfigured design may have been the deciding factor, with nothing sinister going on behind the scenes.
It’s troubling, however, that Hawker-Beechcraft was given no real explanation for this decision. It’s also troubling we’d buy a military aircraft from a foreign manufacturer, under any circumstances. As bad as Americans need jobs, it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Never mind the national security factor.
This may be a legit deal, but Congress needs to look into this, especially since Embraer is already under investigation for corrupt practices, likely pay-offs and bribes. [Though I am only speculating here.]
Hopefully this will be examined further, and before any money changes hands.
![sarah-marvelous-eyes-trig[2]](https://thespeechatimeforchoosing.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/sarah-marvelous-eyes-trig2.jpg)
A Time For Choosing 
I think we will find out that the USAF removed the AT-6 from the competition because the original RFP sought a “non-developmental” aircraft and the AT-6 (with only two prototypes in existence) is still very much in development.
The other 800lb gorilla is Brazil’s FX2 competition. My guess is that, by giving the LAS award to SNC/Embraer the fix is in for Boeing to win the $8B fighter contract with the F/A-18.
You may be right, but it’s seems very irregular, especially with charges of corruption at Embraer.
I can’t see the case for ever using a foreign company for military purchases of any kind, unless there is absolutely no one in the U.S. that makes what is needed.
The Soros connection, as tentative as it is, bothers me. We know the Obama regime works overtime to rewards it’s friends.
As I said, this may all be legit, but it definitely needs serious investigation before money changes hands.
yes and i would use a micoscope
this is so true SOROS,always seem to be connected to obama’s hip ,i would bet that some of this is going to be filtered back to obamas camp
one word for you Oshkosh, pay attention
Seems like the ole Pres is starting to gather his belongings for EXIT from the White House. Looks like he is making his final deals with the devil. I don’t know about you but it sure seems like a country in perl could use someone with back bone, … he says to big business to bring jobs back from India and China…. what does he do… ! Outsources !… hmmm… that word should not even be in the English language… I guess it is all about dollars instead of securing the Nation that feeds it’s enemies…. The Enemies are as stupid as Obama… No matter, if U.S. goes , then so does all the rest of the world, you can take that to the bank. if you kill us, then I guess you will just try to eat sand to sruvive… good luck Iran+
The “Outsource” word, was probably created by congress, Just like the Phrase “Politically Correct”…., so stupid, corporate jumped on the boat, and imposed upon the “U.S. of” , well , used to be (A) america, but now the EAGLE has tears in his eyes… anyway I would like to see justice, PUBLICLY, on the injustice that our Country is getting at the moment, let’s bring back the old laws and get rid of the ridiculous decisions made for a minute few made in Washington. It is time to ban together and , not only let the voice be heard, but to take action upon our dictators…. Wash the clean!…. Start over and try to repair the damage.
Any President or Public official that bows their head to others than a Godly figure should be tried for Treason in the United States of America…
As for you ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, it you are on American soil and are reading this, you should be deported, IMMEDIATELY, not tomorrow, but now…. What were you thinking coming here Illegally, Just like Obama, you think that is a free ticktet… I think you both should go back to your ROOTS of ORGIN and try to make your country a better place…. Anyway, were dealing with a president without a courntry to support, and ILLEGALs without a country at all… I would hate to come where you escaped from, but don’t reach in my pockets for a freeby… Just be Glad your here… don’t push the issue… Illegal is Ilegal …. unless you are President or a Congress representative…. this is going to change, THIS YEAR…. for sure.
Good bye America, at least how it was intended to be… to much fools overseeing my wallet….
Q. Do you know how copper wire was invented?
A.Two Lawyers Fighting over a Penny!
Anyway, …. at least they were fighting and something good became of it!
Not much gonna happen from arse holes fighting for nothing…..
cya
I LIVE HERE IN JACKSONVILLE FLA, WHERE THE BRAZILLIAN AC WAS GOING TO BE ASSEMBLED. THEY WERE BRAGGING ABOUT THE NEW CONTRACT,,,,, BUT, NOW IT IS ON HOLD. MAYBE SOMEONE IS LOOKING INTO THIS,,, FINALLY. WE NEED JOBS HERE IN JACKSONVILLE, BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF ASSEMBLING A PLANE MADE IN BRAZIL .
There are a lot of more jobs in building a plane from the ground up, and money too than just putting in seats and a paint job.Somebody is making a killing on this at the expense of American jobs and even our security.
Absolutely no surprise on this since Obama is George Soros’ personal punk and butt buddy. We cant drill our own oil, but Obama gives Soros $5 Billion of our taxpayer money to go drill oil, off shore in Brazil.
Obama is a corrupt piece of garbage and a treasonous scum. He should be driven out of office and sent directly to prison, for life, along with the rest of his marxist punk friends.
Get Real! The Federal Acquisition Regulation has a rule to cover this: FAR PART 6-in the public interest. We can just refuse requests to go overseas w ith any of our contracts. It is in America’s public interest to keep all these jobs here. I learned this working for the AF in contracting. Those of us who are not in the Pentagon read the regulations. Are you listening-Pat Payton? You tried to send the tanker overseas as well and now you have an even better job! Hawker it is time for another protest and use FAR PART 6 in your argument. Buying overseas for military goods is not in our best interest. Remember the army berets that had to be returned to China because they were not American made?
ANY JOBS IN AMERICA IS A GOOD JOB ,I SUSPORT BY AMERICA ,but it seems mr.george soros/petrobas always has his greedy hands on anything that has a smell ti it
joyjoy
And a few months after this awful thing happened, Brazil bought 4.3 Billion dollars worth of Boeing’s made in the USA jets for its AirForce. Balanced trade – we have it with Brazil. In fact WE are running a surplus. For all the Obama naysayers out there…. did we ever have balanced trade with China, since about 2000? No the trade deals were advantage US Corps that outsourced to China. Brazil is a good business partner and buys 1 billion more of our stuff per year than we buy of theirs. Thanks for listening.
I’m not saying Brazil isn’t a good trade partner, just that Americans aren’t keen on foreign companies supplying our military. There’s a serious worry that proprietary information may get in the wrong hands.
Brazil is a fine nation with great people.
As for Obama, he’s the worst president in the history of the world. He has destroyed the American economy. He’s done so much damage the United States may never fully recover. He’ll be gone after the election.
Forget which is “ready”,,, until you allow competition, you don’t really know if the American version would have met or exceeded the requirements. It is obvious ovomit is paying off sorus…. The bottom line is, you don’t buy foreign military equipment. Keeping a strong economy is more important here in the long run. If not for a strong industrial base before WWII, we would have lost that war. Right now, we should be doing all we can to keep our industry afloat… This is rigged for Brazil by obozo…
Nobody says anything about the charges of corruption at Lockheed Martin. Maybe, these charges of corruption at Embraer was a moove by HBC, because they knew that they could not present a capable COIN plane after 2 years of work. Also, the plane will be built in Florida with more than 70% of its parts made in USA. And it is good for a closer relationship between US-Brazil.
The federal government has been investigating Embraer for some time. What I failed to report, but is noted in the link to the London Financial Times, is other companies have been engaging in the same thing, in Brazil, and have been found guilty.
Corruption within the American government is wide spread, and lets face it, bribes and pay-off in Latin America are still standard business practice.
I think Brazil is a wonderful nation, and America SHOULD have strong relations with her. That said, this deal stinks to high heaven, at first glance.
As I also point out, everything may be legit, but I don’t think an investigation before any money changes hands is too much to ask.
Those charges at Embraer stink badly of protecionism. A very leftist thing to do…
Embraer isn’t the only Brazilian company that has been in trouble for unethical behavior. If you look at the Financial Times link, you’ll find more.
As corrupt as our Congress, and Obama is, no telling what is going on here.
We need a full investigation before any money changes hands on this deal. If Embraer did nothing wrong, the investigation will be in their best interest too.
it would make sence
What do you know of corruption at Lockheed Martin? Easy to through something out to distract everyone from the issue of awarding government contracts to foreign companies. Maybe Obama will also pardon PFC Manning.
Do you have anything to share? I’d certainly love to talk about it if you can give us some provable facts. I intend to spend a lot of time in 2012 exposing corrupt government officials
Screw Brazil. America First!
Facts:
1) HBC, a company that continues to outsource it’s production to Mexico and laying off Wichita workers in it’s continued track record of selling out and the outsourcing of America.
2) Embraer will be manufacturing the Super T in where???????Anyone??????? Yes that’s it, Florida! Utilizing American workers and primarily American content.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m NO fan of Embraer. HBC is just plain culpable for this decision.
So, who is the real bad guy here, and who is to blame for HBC not being considered? HBC need only look in the mirror.
One small error in the article: the Super Tucano is an advanced version of the Tucano trainer (EMB-312) that has been flying since 1980. The Super Tucano is a combat-proven light attack aircraft that needs no testing. It also uses the same engine that the AT-6 would have used, so Pratt-Whitney doesn’t really lose out.
With HBC moving more and more jobs to Mexico, I wonder if the bottom line impact of losing the contract will actually hurt the US jobs situation. Of course another factor to consider is that Kansas is typically a Republican state and Obama has been pretty open with his efforts to punish those who do not support him. A pretty standard MOA for a Chicago politician. He learned well from his mentors.
The best airplane had won the competition. Is just simple like that. USAF won’t put their pilots in risk by using a unfinished airplane. Afeganistan campain needs quickly this kind of airplane to slow down the costs of the war. HBC would win this competition if they had more time to improve their airplane but the time is urging and Embraer has the right solution on right time.
I personally don’t believe that obama had influenced the dispute, Embraer’s plane won because it reached the requirements.
If you believe Obama and/or his administration had no impact on the contract decision, you need to go back to the basics of how he is ruining our economy , sending jobs overseas, and doing everything he can to get the Hispanic vote.
Bill
These airplanes will not be used for counter terrorism or homeland security,….they will be used against us. They will be used to thwart any action on our part to protect our liberty and our homeland.
I wouldn’t think so. The company wants to sell us more planes.
This is more about buying from a foreign company over one of ours, and questions of corruption. Not some sort of conspiracy to harm America.
The most honest ‘free’press left is the internet
Gary. The engine is not a piston engine as you state in your article. It is a turbine engine. In other words, the T-6 is a turbine-powered, propeller- driven airplane. I’ve seen numerous T-6’s at airports around the country. I find it hard to believe that I have seen either of the same two aircraft each time. Maybe the prototype you speak of in your writings is the AT-6
That’s actually from the original article, excerpted from the website, not from me. I never alter original context from another website. It seems we’ve mentioned that was incorrect somewhere, but if not, let this set the record straight. It’s good to point it out. Thanks!
Does anyone even make a high performance piston engine airplane any more? It seems all use turbine engines. I know Beechcraft’s King Air uses a turboprop. It’s less costly, and more fuel efficient than a jet. [or so they claim]
My state of Florida seems to be the winner on this stage. We have a brand new Facility at Melbourne Airport built by Embraer. Perhaps the Aircraft will be assembled in that facility which was brought here by our own Gop Governor last year. I do not agree very often with Gov. Rick Scott but I did on this issue.
That’s a good thing. If they assemble the aircraft there, at least some Americans will have new jobs.
Don’t know much about your governor. He seems to be a mixed bag from what little I’ve seen.
That won’t happen if it harms union workers in Washington.
oh yeah thats news good for florida
Good article. You seem to be trying hard not to be too strident, and give the issue a look from both sides. Keep working on that and you’ll succeed.
I totally agree. I very much appreciate the tone and fair-mindedness of your article. There is always more to a story than any one individual usually knows. I wish there more writers online like you!
Thank you. There is more, and I’ll be following up. We try to be fair in our writing.
there is always more than meets the eye
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Hey just go back to the P51 mustang with it’s Merlin Engine WW II vintage but a proven aircraft for the US Air Force. By the looks of the plane they’re looking at the P51 would be more than a match IMO.
The P51 is one fine airplane. Won the war in Europe, for sure.
I’ve always like the Corsair as well. Powerful, good looking plane.
Yes, but hard landing on an aircraft carrier because of it’s long nose :-). It was definately the downfall of the Japanese zero. Became an island hopping aircraft, Boyington and his “Black Sheep” reeked havoc with the Corsair.
I was just trying to make a point of why didn’t the US Air force just go back to tried and true Prop planes if they’re looking for a less costly version for Afganistan? I’m sure they could just go into the archives and pull the blueprints and add some technology as they did in WWII. there were many versions of the P51 and Corsair.
Oh yeah! The Corsair was a real winner. The Black Sheep were legendary. I’m sure you remember they made a TV show about them.
I get where you are coming from though. I guess the only change, other than upgraded avionics, a P51 would need, is the turbo-prop engine. Love the vintage stuff, but the new engines are more efficient.
It would be like an old hod rod. Vintage body, new mechanicals.
What you suggest though makes far too much sense, the government would never go for it!
About 20 years ago, the Air Force was testing 2 P-51’s with turboprops at Eglin AFB, Fl. I saw them personally. Funny, they just went away!
I believe that, I saw a P51 at Piper in Vero Beach in the late 70’s being retrofitted for something.
How cool was that!
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The HBC aircraft is an experimental project, not field tested. Meanwhile competitor Tucano has thousands of combat proven hours, plus hundreds of thousands of hours flewn, approved by Air Forces of dozens of countries during the last 30 years.
Which one would you give an american pilot to fly in?
A no-brainer.
I am sorry Francisco the no brainer is that you want a capable aircraft that meets or exceeds the requirements set forth by the Air Force and it’s intended mission. Using your logic we would not have such planes as the stealth series planes and the likes of the F-22 the F-35 for that matter any plane that was developed during a war or the Curtiss Jenny afterall why spend so much time developing an aircraft that is unproven…. If in fact Embraer has the supeior plane the only objection might be how it got the contract amd the fact that is a foreign owned company making something for the protection and defence of another country specifically the U.S.
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Treason.
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I read a comment made by someone associated with USAF to the effect that the Air Force did not want an airplane with “America’s fingerprints all over it” or words to the effect. Am scrambling right now to dig up the article with the quote. It was in one of my aviation online newsletters.
Anybody else read something to this effect?
its gonna get worse folks before it gets better. read the bible…revelations will tell you.
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The T-6 Texan II is an active modern trainer in the USAF and USN and the Air Forces of Canada, Greece, Iraq, Israel, and Morocco. There were 446 in service as of mid 2010. The AT-6 is a direct derivative of a proven design based on the Pilatus PC-9. There are many aircraft that have been successfully modified for a Training or Combat role. The AT-6 has an upgraded Turboprop engine with 1600 hp, reinforced airframe, and digital uplink and targeting computer controls, in addition to hard points stations under the wings. The T-6 Texan II production line is in existence and schedule to shutdown in 2015. This would keep the production line open and save hundreds of US jobs. Buy American with American Tax dollars!
(Former USAF pilot)
Thanks Marty. The more info we get the better.
Since the jet age designing of military prop driven airframes has almost stopped. It reached its pinnacle during WWII. For land-based craft, the P-51 is one of the best designs and for carrier craft; the Corsair is hard to top. Both have similar power requirements. While airframe has stopped engine design has not. With modern technology, an engine could be built which produces required horsepower yet is lighter, more durable and uses less fuel than the originals. Too bad no one has the foresight to look back for the future.
Regardless would our government and military have accepted a WWII designed plane? I am afraid not. Everyone wants the shiny new toy not the proven workhorse. This is one of the problems with our military costs. They do not improve on tested designs. Make everything new from the ground up. So all the spare parts and salvage vehicles are instantly worthless then they are given away and everything is purchased new. I know they are sold but at the price received compared to cost, they might as well be given away. Many times, they are sold for less than the scrap price of the materials. Yes, they would get more money if they just loaded up trucks and drove to the junkyard. But, I digress into the black hole of government waste.
Back to the topic at hand there is no excuse for the American government to issue contracts to foreign contractors or businesses especially for military needs. Even if the items cost more we still win. Do not forget a percent of that cost will be returned in the form of taxes from the companies and workers. That stays in the USA and circulates many times. Once the money is shipped to Brazil, there is ZERO value for the US. The American worker takes his paycheck and buys groceries at the local store, gas from a local merchant and dinner at a local restaurant. The Brazilian worker contributes nothing to the American economy. After all, why should the American Government care about the American Economy and keep jobs here?
Badger
Have to disagree with part of your theory. Quote ” Everyone wants the shiny new toy not the proven workhorse. This is one of the problems with our military costs. They do not improve on tested designs. Make everything new from the ground up.”
a prime example would be the venerable B52 bomber that has been around for at least 50 years to the best of my knowlege with many upgrades. There was a special on The History channel or Nat Geo where different generations have flown this bomber from post korean conflict right up until the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. but as you I digress and agree that this conventional aircraft contract should stay in the US. Hopefully the Congrssional committees will get to the bottom of this bid situation.
Most f not all B52 pilots and crew weren’t even born when the thing was first put in service. The design is so good, that will upgrades it could fly indefinitely.
I hate to comment on the fitness of either the Hawker or Embraer design. My concern is with the contracting situation, and what looks like some questionable dealings.
Exactally my point to badger about the longivity of other aircraft and particularly the B52 :-).
Furthermore, why look for an aircraft for fighting these unconventional terrorist wars when we still have the A10 Thunderbolt II AKA WARTHOG (derived from the WWII version A47 Thunderbolt) . Been around since 1977 and has proven itself over and over in close air support. From what I could gather it would cost around 12 million per aircraft in 1994 dollars and fifty would cost $602 million plus inflation which is still below the $900 billion plus for this 55 Embraer aircraft contract.
Just like you say “looks like some questionable dealings.” It’s just like when Obama gave Brazil 2 billion dollars worth of oil business rather than open up the permiting for the Gulf Coast oil producers right here in the US. All that did was move the rigs across the Gulf and take the bussiness away from US jobs.
I fly to the Bahama Islands frequently on Embraer planes. They have very nice wide leather seats and they are very smooth planes in flight. What more can I say. If I had a vote it would go to Embraer.
Great point John McQ, as a pilot, I’d much rather fly a straight jet instead of a turbo prop, Especially the A-10 with its straight wing. The problem with the turbo prop is it’s lack of capability at high altitudes, and also having a transmission adds more things to go wrong and lowers the TBO (time between recomended overhaul) by at least a thousand hours. The straight wing A-10, gives great manueverability at slow speeds, and yet with the jet engine, allows good speeds in the Flight levels above 30,000 feet. The T-6 or Super Tacano is a great trainer, but is a 3rd world combat aircraft for sure. Also, I may be wrong, but I believe the Super Tucano is unpressurized.
The only coomment I have regarding the P51 was that it had an achilles heel..the engine was not air cooled … a hit or two in the engine nacelle and bingo..it stopped running. For me, a good ‘ole plane’ is the Douglas B-26
( aka A-20 ) it had range, power, speed, survivability..During the Viet Nam war, adding pressurization was a disaster…wings had to be magna fluxed
etc but it was still a good stable, reliable bird that can loiter and would be a GREAT counter insurgency addition if costs were contained.
THE B-26 STARTED LIFE AS THE ‘A-26’ NOT A-20. THERE ARE ALMOST NONE AROUND ANYMORE. I HAVE AN RC MODEL OF ONE. THE A-26 INVADER. TWO PRATT AND WHITNEY RADIAL ENGINES. LOTS OF MAINTENANCE ON THOSE. A PAIR OF TURBO PROPS WOULD HAVE BEEN GREAT.
Hmm. Connection somewhere among Soros, Obama and BP. Millions of American dollars loaned to Brazil for off-shore-drilling just at the height of the BP disaster in the Gulf when off-shore-drilling was prohibited in United States by Obama; Canadian bus designed for Obama for his touring pleasure during campaign trail; and, now we have a Light Attack Plane contract going to Embraer, that Soros has money invested, and contract not awarded to American Hawker Beechcraft that had bid in for over a year…Yes-e-ree. Making sure Americans have jobs if they move to Brazil or Canada!
TEN B I L L I O N DOLLARS TO BE EXACT FOR DRILLING. OBAMA IS STILL PAYING OFF GEORGE SOROS FOR BUYING THE ELECTION FOR HIM.
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The only commenter on here that has any idea what he is talking about is Marty Noonan. The AT-6 is an adaptation of the Pilatus PC 9 that is a proven military trainer and has been modified for combat uses. The Embraer Super Tucano is based on an original French design from EADS Socata that is licensed to Embraer. Just ask yourself why we would buy a Brazilian product over a superior American product for something of this importance….I think you will surely determine that the answer is purely political…as is every thing that this president does. He knows nothing but politics….nothing.
How about Hawker’s idea about the T-6. Quote
“The straight wing A-10, gives great manueverability at slow speeds, and yet with the jet engine, allows good speeds in the Flight levels above 30,000 feet. The T-6 or Super Tacano is a great trainer, but is a 3rd world combat aircraft for sure.”
It seems that he has a pretty good idea about the A-10 Thunderbolt II (Warthog) as does Mr. Noonan has with the AT-6. You’re right though about it being all about politics.
Why are we looking at backwards technology (props) when we have a well proven design and comprable in price in the Warthog?
That’s a GREAT point. What about the A-10? That is an excellent plane and should meet all the mission requirements.
THE A-10 IS MAINLY A TANK KILLER. A 30 MILLIMETER CANNON WAS DESIGNED TO KILL TANKS, AND THE A-10 WAS BASICALLY BUILT AROUND THE GUN.
true enough. It is a tank killer. Does that mean it couldn’t be a duece and a half, APC, pickup truck, convoy of whatever killer? besides, “The Big Gun”
the A10 also carried fixed wing armaments. Ideal for any type of interdiction duties it would be called on in this non-conventional war we are in. Many of the commentators here have brought to light many aircraft that would serve the purpose and are all ready part of our Air Force or could be re-commisioned as our Navy used to do. Remember The Battleship New Jersey. The Navy recommessioned it several times and it put fear into anyone that was staring down those 16″ guns.
Goes back to political pay backs as others have stated on this matter IMHO.
Everyone had very good points.
To me, the crux of the matter is with our president interfering with the NORMAL way of handling Military Contracts & payin-off Soros with a contract with a foreign country.
What do we do for spare parts if Brazil sides with Iraq in Open Conflict with the USA???
impeach Obama! the worst president in the history of the US
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The deal stinks to high heaven….but, to be fair, Nobama didn’t do this all by himself, did he?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/hawker.asp
The two people who run Snopes from their kitchen table are Obama sycophants. Not trust worthy
I see the name Hawker in front of Beech. Who owns this company and where are they located?
George Soros is a communist multi-billionaire who financed (and controls) BO s run from politicl office. BO is his puppet. Soros owns or controls media that reaches over 300 muillion people. He is a real threat to the American way of life. He is, apparently, bent on bringing the USA into the Communist arena.
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It’s just not fair. I mean so what if the best aircraft won the Light Attack Aircraft contract. Don’t you get it, Hawker Beechcraft didn’t win. How is that possible? After all, the invested at least 100 million dollars. Told everyone that would listen that their aircraft is the best. Yet they still lost. Oh, never mind the fact that after long test period, the Air Force made a decision based on performance and the duty demands. Hawker Beechcraft grow up. It seems they prefer to place profit over what is best to help protect our brave men and women serving in combat. I pray Hawker Beechcraft lawsuit that will delay the deployment of this aircraft doesn’t cost someone’s child life due to the lack of air support for our ground forces. Now, does anyone know a good attorney. I bid a service contract for my business yesterday and lost to another company. Amercia, It Matters.
I don’t care what the reason is, AT NO TIME SHOULD A CONTRACT FOR A MILITARY AIRCRAFT, PAID FOR BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, GO TO A FOREIGN COMPANY. IT MUST BE MAINTAINED IN THE UNITED STATES AND MANUFACTURED BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. By allowing our military aircraft to be built in Brazil, a country which has shown it’s hatred of the United States, we are leaving ourselves open to being cut off from replacement parts as well as receiving planes that are sabottaged to fail right from the start. Bring our jobs back to the US.
John, ask yourself a question: who owns Hawker Beechcraft? Is the aircraft duty ready? If not and it was to be chosen light attack aircraft, were do you think the rest of the development cost to ready this aircraft would come from? Last but not least, what is the financial condition of Hawker Beechcraft? John, the sad fact is Hawker Beechcraft can’t field the best aircraft and I for one don’t want second best air cover protecting our brave men and women in combat. Like it or not, these are the facts.
Also, what happened to the Buy American Act? Bring back some retired contract PCO’s to straighten out the Pentagon and teach them the rules. And don’t let the lobbyists in the front door.
How about a class in the Federal Acquisition Regulations for Congress? If you aren’t going to use the regs, then let us buy commercial and we can really save some money. Is there anyone in Washington with a business degree? You Polysci folks do not have the best interests of our country in mind!
o
Okay, I just saw the date on this. Now that I am retired I will have time to read. Hopefully this was protested and won. If not, I would be looking for a reason to terminate the contract.
USAF-you need to clean house.
Actually, the Brazilian company won the contract.
Hawker, if I’m not wrong, is a British corporation. At least, if this is true, it is a company who has America’s best interest at heart. The British, have always shared military secrets with us: e.i.; Radar, angle and metal decks on aircraft carriers, reactive armor on tanks, the Harrior Jump Jet, on and on and on.
I don’t care what it is, whenever our minitary puts out a bid for anything, I think any Amerucan company should be given a great edge in the bidding, AS LONG AS IT’S AMERICAN OWNED! I personally don’t think a foreign corporation should ever be given the contract to produce a piece of military hardware, esperially an aircraft!
I for one am getting sick and tired of Mr. Obama destroying America one company at a time. The U.S. Government never owned a privately owned company until he mandated the takeover of G.M and Chrysler, not to mention the numerous banks and finantial institutions the government now owns. The same thing happened in Germany under Hitler and in Russia under Stalin. Doesn’t this scare anyone or am I the only one in the USA that sees what is going on ?
If we (USA) don’t do something to bring back jobs to America quickly, there won’t be an America anymore. It all starts with one small contract that is let out to a foreign country and this is on the heals of baning drilling in US waters all the while giving huge amouints of cash to that same foreign country to drill in their offshore waters. Both the Oil drilling cash gift and the aircraft contract has George Soros’s name on them and he happens to be Mr. Obama’s best friend and close confident. Man, talk about a streak of pure luck for Mr. Soros, HUH!
Brother Ron
Actually Hawker-Beech is a joint American-Canadian venture.
How about inviting all qualified mfgrs to a ‘William Tell’-like
competition, flown by both newly-trained pilot-graduates and
experienced ‘old pros’ with many hours: This wud combine
the opinions and judgmentsof the range of pilots’ skills and
the needs of all affected military branches? Winning plane
gets the contract; best runners-up get help to market their
machine[s] to US-friendly countries?..Aaron Allen…
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I really appreciate the folks above who tried to stick to the point of the discussion, in spite of the rhetorical spew provided by the current-administration-haters. The Air Force and Army already have other Embraer aircraft serving specific roles adequately, demonstrating their value even if the company is “foreign”.
Further, the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the 5th generation fighter planned to be the mainstay of air to ground action for the next 50 years, is already international- with parts and assemblies from multiple companies in multiple nations. Where are the anti-foreign froth generators in that discussion? Should we cancel the future just because it isn’t all built here?.
The Air Force folks reviewing the Embraer vs. Hawker performance proposals were most certainly aware of the FARS and buy American sentiment, but the most responsive proposals tend to win the contracts.
J.R. GOMOLAK, you are right. Thanks for your thoughts. Now, if only Hawker Beechcraft would do the right thing and DROP this lawsuit against the United States Air Force so we can field the Light Attack Aircraft that is needed now to help protect our men and women serving in combat, THAT is and should be the first concern of the AMERICAN PEOPLE. Not Hawker Beechcrafts bottom line. AMERICA IT MATTERS TO ME, AND IT SHOULD MATTER TO YOU.
The AT-6 [see drawing atop this story] has three features for
pilot-trainees [AF and Navy use this ship as a ‘jet’ trainer]: A
special automatic anti-roll and torque-yaw counteract propel-
ler-torque when the single ‘thruster-lever’ is pushed forward,
like the single throttle lever found in jet fighters [see small
‘skeg’ rudder under the aft end of the tail assembly]. Which-
ever aircraft is chosen, foreign pilots cud train on it in Florida
[Pensacola or Jacksonville?] Our AF/Navy/Army/MC? guys
who have graduated from the joint-training program will be
right at home…For the story on the Piper PA-48 [their model
number, as DOD never gave it a US mil. designation] pls see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA_48_Enforcer The re-
maining one of these is in the Museum of the AF [W-P AFB
Ohio] in the buildings where the former Presidential planes
are on display…Aaron Allen…
Here’s another idea to make the AT6 more like the Tucano,
for evaluation purposes: Remove or disable the ‘auto anti-
roll/yaw’ to restore the plane’s ‘natural’ handling, then attach
hardpoints inline with the center of gravity. This cud be prov-
ed on CadCam [computer] then flown with model aircraft…
If the Texan II can compete with the Tucano, build a few and
smoke-test them in actual combat conditions…If it is not as
good a ‘turbine-fighter’, keep it as a trainer–with the switch
that controls the ‘jet-like’ flight [anti-roll/yaw]…Mark switch as
‘jet-sim’ and ‘prop-ftr’? An ‘RPM’ control [prop-pitch] wud be
added to manually control the propeller…Aaron Allen…
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